Do you trust Christian groups?

[Silver Fox]

oh, so youre just defending christianity? arent you gonna stand for the others?

Chris de Burgh says in one of his songs, "I believe there is a God / but it doesn't mean that my God is greater than yours / It only means we all have the right to believe / 'Cos nobody knows it for sure" I guess that's where I stand: but Christianity is the religion I know most about, so that's why I speak about it more than the others.

To answer a few of your points:

you seem so unfamiliar with how people can be made to move

I'm not you know: I'm well aware of how people can be manipulated. For example, it occurs in our supermarkets daily: products are placed on the shelves according to what the supplier asks for. The middle shelves cost more to put products on than the shelves on the bottom: because they catch our eye and stimulates impulse buying.

Also, if you want to look at REAL brainwashing (which I haven't seen at church on a Sunday) you need to look at Derren Brown and study his methods. He can influence people to do some VERY surprising things. Don't know anyone at church who even approaches the power of his mind.

oh such righteousness and humility... sadly, in the real world its only when its convenient eh? words words and just words.

I seem to have made you angry, Nie... I'm sorry about that. However, I have to take note of the fact that you didn't rise to the challenge and offer a moral advance on loving your enemies. By the way that's ok, no-one has these last 2000 odd years. You said before that previously you were a Roman Catholic. Do you mind if I ask you: what made you stop?

[Nie]

... I cant believe you made a separate thread just to talk to me... have you been enchanted that strongly...

As I said I wanted to stand down so that other people can enjoy posting and talking too, I dont want to like hog it all you know. but since you went through such trouble...

The ones you mentioned are examples, but that is not what is happening to you - you did not buy it just because it was in front of you.

you have not made me angry, you are actually entertaining me.

and what are you talking about? I just responded to it. I chose not to expand for doing so would force me to use words that are not nice, though they are called for

here's something though, I was told by the church that when I get slapped on my right cheek, I should offer my left to my enemy, is this what you propose? and that is nowhere near love.

What made me stop? The more you talk to me Bernard, the more you will see - if it is not evident yet. and you seem to be happy being a christian, it might not be to your benefit talking to me.

[Silver Fox]

Hello Nie!

... I cant believe you made a separate thread just to talk to me... have you been enchanted that strongly...

Umm it was just the time out bit of the website that i'm unused to.... I intended to post to the first debate ... but here we are! I am not enchanted I'm afraid.

So here's my latest set of answers:

The ones you mentioned are examples, but that is not what is happening to you - you did not buy it just because it was in front of you.

It's not unworthy to give examples of control: you started talking about it after all. But it is unwise to make assumptions about someone you don't know very well. How do you know when I came to have faith?

I chose not to expand for doing so would force me to use words that are not nice, though they are called for

Where's your anger coming from Nie? All I'm doing is putting my viewpoint. Laugh by all means but you don't fool me!

here's something though, I was told by the church that when I get slapped on my right cheek, I should offer my left to my enemy, is this what you propose? and that is nowhere near love.

Ah. You seem to have thrown your lot in with the Fundamentalists. The passage in Scripture you refer to is Matthew 5 v 39 - most scripture scholars seem to agree that it's not meant to be taken literally (unless you're with the fundamentalist group). I could give you an exegesis of the passage but I'm calculating that you're not interested. Feel free to ask if you ARE though.

The more you talk to me Bernard, the more you will see - if it is not evident yet. and you seem to be happy being a christian, it might not be to your benefit talking to me.

I doubt if there's if there's anything you can say which will endanger or disturb my faith, Nie. But yes, I'm happy with being a Catholic. Carry on talking to me as long as you want to.  I'd still like to ask what made you finally stop? Can't you just come out with it?

Speak soon

[Nie]

It is unwise to have a fixed assumption. And just being playful, isnt it unwise for you to assume that I didnt figure you out already

You assuming that I got angry at any point indicates... Simple words can have different emotional weights based on their use, 'understanding' for example. It appears I must make it much simpler for you. I couldve finished that sentence but it will just hurt your feelings.

Ive already given a response to these things, itd be silly to repeat them all again. I will say this to you though, have you really gotten so used to the answers being given to you

[Silver Fox]

Hello Nie! 

oh, so youre just defending christianity? arent you gonna stand for the others? huhuhuhmmmm

respect your enemies as you engage them, make those who curse you stop cursing you, rise above those who persecute you

oh such righteousness and humility... sadly, in the real world its only when its convenient eh? words words and just words.

This was the point where you showed your anger. The sooner you are honest with yourself, Nie, the better your life will be. Suppressed anger leads to raised temperature, increased heart rate, depression, do you need me to go on?

The fantastic power of forgiveness is, and Jesus knew this too, is that the incident is left in the past, consigned to history, instead of being carried around like baggage. This is what I would want for you, Nie: to be able to forgive the people who've hurt you.

However, since we're engaged in a debate, I'm going to have to assume that I've won the argument if you won't answer the assertions that I've made. There's still time though! Just to recap:

I can't think of any large institution, Christian or not, that wouldn't want control in the matters that it's concerned with; who wouldn't want to lobby for their own interests in a democracy; and who wouldn't want the best return from what they do with the money they have available!

How do you know when I came to have faith?

Where's your anger coming from Nie?

I could give you an exegesis of the passage but I'm calculating that you're not interested. Feel free to ask if you ARE though.

I'd still like to ask what made you finally stop? Can't you just come out with it?

Last chance! Direct answers please, the same as I've given to you. Though I suspect your purpose is not served by giving direct answers:

It is unwise to have a fixed assumption. And just being playful, isnt it unwise for you to assume that I didnt figure you out already

It appears I must make it much simpler for you.

Don't patronise me, please.

Young Dappadee, you shall become my new apprentice. I shall teach you the ways of the dark side of the force and together we shall step over all the lines that can be stepped on and make as much people upset as possible!

This is rather an unworthy aim to have on a website that's trying to help people.

[Nie]

Bernard, perhaps you should ask another person for a second opinion about the mood of those lines.

Not all questions are worthy of being answered, or in other cases, answered again and again and again.

As for the last part, you really need to watch more movies Bernard.

I will give this to you though, you miss the big picture of things dont you - forgive me, but you were really asking for it anyway